PDF display is seriously broken

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PDF display is seriously broken

Postby Kenward » Mon Oct 14, 2013 3:26 am

PDF display is bust here. Maybe Adobe's new update for the viewer messed it up.

If I find a file based on its name, and then try to search for a word within the results, it shows the first occurrence of the search word. But pressing "+" does not get me to the next word. Instead the display reverts to the first page of the document and the screen refreshes itself about every 10 seconds. (It does this for all files in the find list, navigating to the next file does not even show the first hit.)
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Another symptom of the behaviour is that X1 positions itself on top of the Search Window if I try to use "Ctrl + F" on the PDF viewer pane.

A consequence of this is that I can no longer do anything in X1. It is frozen because it is expecting me to do something with the Find pane. But I cannot get at that pane because the screen keeps refreshing itself and sitting on top of it. Alt Tab shows no hidden Window. It won't even let me switch to X1 because that is invisible to Alt Tab.

Likewise Cascade Windows. I have to kill X1 from the Notification Area.

None of this changes if I pause indexing. Still bust.

In other words, X1 Search 8.1 is effectively useless for PDF files.

I see the same behaviour of I use the "All Files" search as well as my saved PDF search.

Fortunately, good old X1 6.7 behaves properly. I knew there was a good reason to keep it running. Looks like I will have to use it until someone fixes Search 8.1, or tells me how to change things at my end.
MK
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Re: PDF display is seriously broken

Postby Kenward » Sun Oct 20, 2013 10:26 am

Am I really the only person to have caught this disease?

It makes the latest version of X1 almost impossible to use with PDF files.
MK
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Re: PDF display is seriously broken

Postby mrwul » Mon Oct 21, 2013 8:15 am

No Ken
You are not the only one... The preview is 'so-so'.
Actually I find the file, launch it, e.g. Acrobat, and do a search there.
It ain't nice, but that is the only way to go, I guess.

What to think of:
Search for -some text string- select filetype PDF.
Click on a PDF -the preview is displayed.
X1 is in the process of indexing
Now I want to skip to another file

No matter what other file I select in the top listing panel, the preview sticks to the file that was/has been selected (not open) in the first place.
So, it seems I have to wait until the indexing process has finished.
By then another file can be clicked/selected to get the preview.

After index: click clear search and start over.
But that is a tiny thing.
=
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Re: PDF display is seriously broken

Postby Kenward » Mon Oct 21, 2013 11:05 am

Thanks for confirming that I am not the only sufferer, even if your symptoms are slightly different. Then again, they are similar enough to suggest that they are related.

One factor that may have messed up things here – I don't remember it always being useless – is that I installed the newest version of QuickView Plus, the viewer technology that underpins X1. There was also an update to Adobe Reader. Both things that could mess up with PDF displays.

It really is infuriating to have to leave X1 and open PDF files to do anything properly.
MK
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Re: PDF display is seriously broken

Postby mrwul » Mon Oct 21, 2013 11:57 pm

About the PDF-preview :
I think the issue of X1 not always working properly with PDF has been reported earlier.
See threads:

-Search PDF files in viewer pane Aug 19, 2013
-PDF preview of larger PDF's Sep 13, 2013
-Jump to next (Preview) Jul 02, 2013
and maybe even also:
-Select text from preview (PDF files) Mar 28, 2013

Assume though that this issue is not really high on the priority list (although I feel it should be)
The only workaround to do a search in a PDF is to actually open the file.

X1 indexes PDFs
X1 finds PDFs when searching for text string

Whilst writing this post,
I launched X1
selected a PDF randomly
the index status is "Index is up-to-date"

Nothing is displayed, totally white, then after say 5-10 secondes, the white turns into 'light grey' for 1-2 seconds and it then returns to white, even though the file does contain text and this keeps on going endlessly.

it look like this

(1)
==
Image

(2)
==
Image

(3) file does contain text (old stuff, I agree, cud not find anything suitable on short term, mostly private matters)
==
Image

==
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Re: PDF display is seriously broken

Postby Kenward » Tue Oct 22, 2013 4:13 am

I'd forgotten the details of those past issue, but mine seemed to be a new one.

I can't even scroll down a PDF file manually. After a few seconds it jumps back to the top of the file.
MK
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Re: PDF display is seriously broken

Postby Jogy » Fri Nov 08, 2013 9:52 am

Kenward wrote:I'd forgotten the details of those past issue, but mine seemed to be a new one.

I can't even scroll down a PDF file manually. After a few seconds it jumps back to the top of the file.


I can reproduce this issue too, with larger PDFs that take some more time to load. We are investigating the cause and we will have a fix in the upcoming patch (probably 8.1.1)

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Re: PDF display is seriously broken

Postby Kenward » Sun Nov 10, 2013 2:41 pm

Oh dear. Does this mean that I have to wait another 6 months for this serious bug to get zapped?

In my experience "larger PDFs" includes some PDF files around 1MB and bigger. Larger? Come on. These are tiddly files in comparison with the index limit of 30MB. Does no one at X1 use PDF files?

X1 has indexed 187,122 PDF files here. X1 reckons that 1370 are "giant", 2981 are large (that includes some of the giants), 28,536 are medium, 115,110 are small, with 39,125 tiny (some of these are clearly bust). That makes most of my files unusable.

I see this behaviour for all but the tiny files. Even small files do this.

This suggestions a new (Californian?) definition of the word "larger".
MK
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Re: PDF display is seriously broken

Postby Jogy » Mon Nov 11, 2013 12:53 am

Kenward wrote:Oh dear. Does this mean that I have to wait another 6 months for this serious bug to get zapped?


No, we are working on the new update and it is planned to come out soon, but I cannot predict an actual date - there are still some bugs to be fixed and tested.

Kenward wrote:In my experience "larger PDFs" includes some PDF files around 1MB and bigger. Larger? Come on. These are tiddly files in comparison with the index limit of 30MB. Does no one at X1 use PDF files?

X1 has indexed 187,122 PDF files here. X1 reckons that 1370 are "giant", 2981 are large (that includes some of the giants), 28,536 are medium, 115,110 are small, with 39,125 tiny (some of these are clearly bust). That makes most of my files unusable.

I see this behaviour for all but the tiny files. Even small files do this.

This suggestions a new (Californian?) definition of the word "larger".


Actually, it is a matter of how long the file takes to load - if it is more than 10 sec, then the preview will reset and file will reload. :-(
If it is less than 10 sec, the file will load just fine. So, it depends on the machine...

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Re: PDF display is seriously broken

Postby Kenward » Mon Nov 11, 2013 3:16 am

It depends on the machine? Mine is slow?

Windows 7 Home Pro 64-bit + Asus M4A88TD-V EVO/USB3 + AMD Phenom II X6 1055T + 8GB Corsair XMS3 1600

That is a six-core AMD processor with 8GB of memory. Hardly cutting edge, but certainly zippier than some of the boxes lying around the X1 offices.

I'm not sure what you mean by "how long the file takes to load". Mine show the first page almost instantly.
MK
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Re: PDF display is seriously broken

Postby Jogy » Mon Nov 11, 2013 4:44 am

Kenward wrote:It depends on the machine? Mine is slow?

Windows 7 Home Pro 64-bit + Asus M4A88TD-V EVO/USB3 + AMD Phenom II X6 1055T + 8GB Corsair XMS3 1600

That is a six-core AMD processor with 8GB of memory. Hardly cutting edge, but certainly zippier than some of the boxes lying around the X1 offices.

I'm not sure what you mean by "how long the file takes to load". Mine show the first page almost instantly.


Yes, the first page shows fast, but then the previewer engine continues to load the rest of the pages - I can observe this by watching the preview scrollbar thumb shrinking (to indicate that the scrollbar is increasing in size) - so if this process takes more than 10 secs, the preview will reset.

On my machine the line seems to be about 1MB - smaller PDFs load fully, and larger do not.

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Re: PDF display is seriously broken

Postby Jogy » Thu Nov 28, 2013 2:29 am

Hello,

in the just released beta of X1 Search 8.1.1 the PDF preview should be fixed.

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Re: PDF display is seriously broken

Postby Kenward » Mon Feb 03, 2014 7:06 am

Jogy wrote:Hello,

in the just released beta of X1 Search 8.1.1 the PDF preview should be fixed.

Jogy


This bug is still there for some PDF files.
MK
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Re: PDF display is seriously broken

Postby mrwul » Mon Feb 03, 2014 8:54 am

But eh .. how to get hold of the latest beta?
Run the x1searchsetup.exe ?
Am I overlooking it in the beta section?
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Re: PDF display is seriously broken

Postby Kenward » Mon Feb 03, 2014 10:29 am

I'm running 8.1.1 build 5001bc.

I have had it for some time.

Doesn't the beta section deliver that?
MK
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Re: PDF display is seriously broken

Postby mrwul » Tue Feb 04, 2014 3:40 am

Okay, sorry, that's the version I am also using.
It was released dec.17, so I was thinking a new build was released.

Indeed searched text are correctly marked in PDF in many cases.
If a PDF has been generated from original source doucments, like Word, then the text is correctly marked.
Those are, let's say, correctly generated PDF's.

Sometimes in binary newsgroups scanned magazines are uploaded.
Those pages often are 'images' combined to 1 PDF file.
That type of PDF file is nót searchable. The mousearrow will show a crosshair pointer and the text can not be selected.
Now, whilst using Acrobat those documents can still be made 'searchable' (using textrecognization, OCR) of Acrobat.
With some luck the text can be selected and X1 will index these files, retroactively being made searchable.

When performing a search, X1 may list the document and preview.
In the 1st case (say: true PDFs), it will mark the searchstring and, at right zoomlevel, one will be able to select the text in the preview, rightfully so.
In the 2nd case, however, it will nót mark it: when hovering over the preview, the mousearrow will not change (the text can not be selected), the mousearrow remains a crosshair.
One needs to open the PDF and at thát point select the text (if needed).
That is to say, at least with me ...

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Re: PDF display is seriously broken

Postby Chris Wheaton » Tue Feb 04, 2014 9:18 am

MRWul - You state: "Sometimes in binary newsgroups scanned magazines are uploaded. Those pages often are 'images' combined to 1 PDF file. That type of PDF file is nót searchable."

I believe we made need to make a distinction here. Is the actual issue that the file isn't searchable or that the searched for term or word is not "hit highlighted"?
It has been true of the X1 product for some time now that a PDF that is "image over text" does not allow for hit highlight but is still fully searchable.

Test this for a "type 2" PDF that you have in your X1 Search 8 Index as follows:

- In the Files > all Files or Files > Document search right-click the gray area between any two Refinement columns. From the menu select Choose Columns. Choose Index Status from the available columns on the left and add it to the selected columns on the right. Click OK.

- Search for a "type 2" PDF File by name. Look at the message in the Index Status column, what does it show? If it shows OK this indicates the file type is set for "full content indexing" and is OK to search for based on file content.

- Next, read that file to find something very unique - a rarely used word or series of words you can search as a phrase (leading the words with quotes "words to search"). Make sure the word or phrase is NOT part of the file name

- Clear the search based on the file name and enter the unique word or phrase only in the primary Search box.

Is this file again returned as a search result? If it is returned it, because you entered no other filters than the unique word or phrase contained in that file, you can rest assured it was found based on the file content. True, the hit highlight may not be present, but the search was still successful.

- Now -
Sincerely,

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Re: PDF display is seriously broken

Postby mrwul » Wed Feb 05, 2014 8:56 am

Hi Chris,
Thanks for the feedback.

The scanned documents/magazines (downloaded from usenet and scanned by individuals):
the document is found X1 will not highlight it, it will not jump to the 'first hit' - in the mouse will show a crosshair in the preview

I can open the file and then do a search (within Acrobat). The text is highlighted then.

A real PDF document, generated from text, no problem.

Will try to show it below.
Left: search results in the preview, crosshair mouse, text cannot be marked
Right, after opening, searching on text.

=
Image
=
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Re: PDF display is seriously broken

Postby Chris Wheaton » Thu Feb 06, 2014 9:57 am

Mrwul - open the document in Adobe - right-click the body of the document and click the Fonts tab. For each font type listed make sure the sub-data is visible. What do you see there?
Sincerely,

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Re: PDF display is seriously broken

Postby Kenward » Fri Feb 07, 2014 3:14 am

mrwul wrote:In the 1st case (say: true PDFs), it will mark the searchstring and, at right zoomlevel, one will be able to select the text in the preview, rightfully so.
In the 2nd case, however, it will nót mark it: when hovering over the preview, the mousearrow will not change (the text can not be selected), the mousearrow remains a crosshair.
One needs to open the PDF and at thát point select the text (if needed).


That's a natural consequence of "PDF searchable" files. I have many of these. I roll my own by scanning documents.

X1 finds them but that's it. As you say, you have to open the file to extract any text.

I thought you might be referring to some hidden ability to index image only PDF files. (Is that what an iFilter does?)

I think this may be possible but in that case all that the OCR does is to create an index of the words in the file. (Think of it as metadata.) So indexers can find the files but there is no text overlay that puts the words on top of the image and opening the file would not allow you to copy text from it.

Maybe this is misinformation on my part. But it seems logical.
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